2004 Ford Escape Drive Train

[Knack]

I recently tested an Escape Limited with a 3 liter V-6 engine. It had a
2-position selector switch on the dash labeled as auto/4WD. The salesman was
uncertain what exactly the 'auto' mode did. Is the auto mode AWD? If so,
then why isn't the switch labeled AWD/4WD?

[Lawrence Glickman]

On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 09:34:35 GMT, "Knack" <***@hotmail.com>
wrote:

|I recently tested an Escape Limited with a 3 liter V-6 engine. It had a
|2-position selector switch on the dash labeled as auto/4WD. The salesman was
|uncertain what exactly the 'auto' mode did. Is the auto mode AWD? If so,
|then why isn't the switch labeled AWD/4WD?

"auto", I believe, goes to 4WD when the computer monitoring wheel
rotations indicates one wheel is spinning faster than the others.

4WD locks it into 4WD regardless of road conditions.


Lg

[Jeff]

Post by Knack
I recently tested an Escape Limited with a 3 liter V-6 engine. It had a
2-position selector switch on the dash labeled as auto/4WD. The salesman was
uncertain what exactly the 'auto' mode did. Is the auto mode AWD? If so,
then why isn't the switch labeled AWD/4WD?

Ask the salesman to find out. That is what he gets his commission for.

I believe the answer given is correct (auto switches it to 4wd on need, 4wd
is locked in with the 4wd position).

Jeff

[Bill Funk]

Post by Knack
I recently tested an Escape Limited with a 3 liter V-6 engine. It had a
2-position selector switch on the dash labeled as auto/4WD. The salesman was
uncertain what exactly the 'auto' mode did. Is the auto mode AWD? If so,
then why isn't the switch labeled AWD/4WD?

There's a difference between Auto 4x4 and AWD.

In the Auto 4x4, there's usually a clutch between the front & rear
prop shafts, which is electronically controlled; this clutch will
direct power to the front prop shaft as needed, usually by monitoring
the rear wheels for slippage.
In AWD, there's usually a viscous clutch between the two prop shafts,
which doesn't monitor anything; it just limits the slippage by it's
viscosity.

I don't think there's a way to lock the prop shafts in an AWD system.
In an Auto 4x4 system, when 4X4 is chosen, the prop shafts are locked
together.

[C. E. White]

Post by Bill Funk

Post by Knack
I recently tested an Escape Limited with a 3 liter V-6 engine. It had a
2-position selector switch on the dash labeled as auto/4WD. The salesman was
uncertain what exactly the 'auto' mode did. Is the auto mode AWD? If so,
then why isn't the switch labeled AWD/4WD?

There's a difference between Auto 4x4 and AWD.
In the Auto 4x4, there's usually a clutch between the front & rear
prop shafts, which is electronically controlled; this clutch will
direct power to the front prop shaft as needed, usually by monitoring
the rear wheels for slippage.
In AWD, there's usually a viscous clutch between the two prop shafts,
which doesn't monitor anything; it just limits the slippage by it's
viscosity.
I don't think there's a way to lock the prop shafts in an AWD system.
In an Auto 4x4 system, when 4X4 is chosen, the prop shafts are locked
together.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

The Escapes has the Automatic Type 4 wheel drive. There is an electrically
operated clutch to the rear drive shaft. In the "Auto" mode, when slip is
detected, the clutch is cycled on and off at an increasing "on" rate until the
slip is eliminated. In the 4WD more, the clutch is engaged 100% of the time
(i.e., locked).

The 4x4 Escape does not have "All Wheel Drive." It has "Automatic 4 Wheel Drive."
Explorers offer both types as an option.

Ed

[C. E. White]

Whoops - I got this completely worng -

See http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3012/6_180/63565216/p4/article.jhtml?term=
for an explanation of how the system really works. It is not like either Explorer 4WD
system, despite the similar advertising name for the system (Control Trac whatever).
Here is a quote from the article -

"For four-wheel-drive versions of the Tribute and Escape, a power-take-off unit
bolted to the transaxle spins a two-piece driveshaft connected to a device called a
Rotary Blade Coupling (RBC), mounted to the nose of an otherwise conventional rear
differential. As long as the front wheels don't slip, the rear half of the driveline
is merely along for the ride. When there is a rotational velocity discrepancy
(resulting from diminished front-wheel traction), interleaved blades inside the RBC
begin churning a silicone fluid. The heat so generated rapidly raises the temperature
and pressure of the air also sealed inside the chamber.

"This pressure rise forces a piston against a multi-plate clutch pack. When so
engaged, the clutch pack completes the link between the spinning prop shaft and the
rear differential, dispatching engine torque to the rear wheels. As soon as front and
rear wheel speeds get back in synch the process reverses and the operating mode
reverts to front drive.

"A second mode is also available. For off-road or "get-unstuck" use, the driver may
press a "4x4 On" button on the dash of the Tribute, or turn a switch on the Escape.
Each sends an electrical current to an electromagnetic coil adjacent to the RBC. This
engages a small multi-plate pilot clutch in the RBC unit, which in turn applies the
main clutch though a ball-ramp thrust-amplification device. The drive torque
available in this mode is nearly seven times greater than the maximum torque
available in the on-demand mode."

Regards,

Ed White

Post by C. E. White

Post by Bill Funk

Post by Knack
I recently tested an Escape Limited with a 3 liter V-6 engine. It had a
2-position selector switch on the dash labeled as auto/4WD. The salesman was
uncertain what exactly the 'auto' mode did. Is the auto mode AWD? If so,
then why isn't the switch labeled AWD/4WD?

There's a difference between Auto 4x4 and AWD.
In the Auto 4x4, there's usually a clutch between the front & rear
prop shafts, which is electronically controlled; this clutch will
direct power to the front prop shaft as needed, usually by monitoring
the rear wheels for slippage.
In AWD, there's usually a viscous clutch between the two prop shafts,
which doesn't monitor anything; it just limits the slippage by it's
viscosity.
I don't think there's a way to lock the prop shafts in an AWD system.
In an Auto 4x4 system, when 4X4 is chosen, the prop shafts are locked
together.
--
Bill Funk
replace "g" with "a"

The Escapes has the Automatic Type 4 wheel drive. There is an electrically
operated clutch to the rear drive shaft. In the "Auto" mode, when slip is
detected, the clutch is cycled on and off at an increasing "on" rate until the
slip is eliminated. In the 4WD more, the clutch is engaged 100% of the time
(i.e., locked).
The 4x4 Escape does not have "All Wheel Drive." It has "Automatic 4 Wheel Drive."
Explorers offer both types as an option.
Ed

[JonnyCab®]

Post by Bill Funk
In the Auto 4x4, there's usually a clutch between the front & rear
prop shafts, which is electronically controlled; this clutch will
direct power to the front prop shaft as needed, usually by monitoring
the rear wheels for slippage.

Actually, it's the other way around. The Escape is basically a
front-wheel-drive, transverse-engine vehicle with a viscous clutch to the
REAR wheels.

In "Auto" mode, the front wheels are always engaged, and the clutch diverts
some power to the rear wheels when FRONT slippage is detected.

In "4X4" mode, which isn't a true 4x4 because of the viscous (rather than
direct, locked mechanical) coupling, the clutch is engaged full-time, but
still allows some slippage. This is an advantage on dry roads, because
there's no drivetrain bind, and you can makes turns without shutting it off.
But it also means that its four-wheel-drive traction is lower than that of a
true mechanical 4x4 connection.

[Dave]

Post by JonnyCab®
In "Auto" mode, the front wheels are always engaged, and the clutch diverts
some power to the rear wheels when FRONT slippage is detected.

Absolutley correct...

Post by JonnyCab®
In "4X4" mode, which isn't a true 4x4 because of the viscous (rather than
direct, locked mechanical) coupling, the clutch is engaged full-time, but
still allows some slippage. This is an advantage on dry roads, because
there's no drivetrain bind, and you can makes turns without shutting it off.
But it also means that its four-wheel-drive traction is lower than that of a
true mechanical 4x4 connection.

Not quite.
Agreed there is a viscous coupling, when in 'lock' mode a
electromechanical lock "locks" the front and rear drive shafts. It
doesn't allow any slippage, and can cause binding and 'winding up' of
the driveshafts when on a smooth surface.

Essentially it uses the same "set-up" as a Range Rover in that it has
a viscous coupling and electromechanical lock. You wouldn't call a
Rangie a pretend 4WD would you?

Cheers
Dave.

[Jim Warman]

Yes....

Post by Dave

Post by JonnyCab®
In "Auto" mode, the front wheels are always engaged, and the clutch diverts
some power to the rear wheels when FRONT slippage is detected.

Absolutley correct...

Post by JonnyCab®
In "4X4" mode, which isn't a true 4x4 because of the viscous (rather than
direct, locked mechanical) coupling, the clutch is engaged full-time, but
still allows some slippage. This is an advantage on dry roads, because
there's no drivetrain bind, and you can makes turns without shutting it off.
But it also means that its four-wheel-drive traction is lower than that of a
true mechanical 4x4 connection.

Not quite.
Agreed there is a viscous coupling, when in 'lock' mode a
electromechanical lock "locks" the front and rear drive shafts. It
doesn't allow any slippage, and can cause binding and 'winding up' of
the driveshafts when on a smooth surface.
Essentially it uses the same "set-up" as a Range Rover in that it has
a viscous coupling and electromechanical lock. You wouldn't call a
Rangie a pretend 4WD would you?
Cheers
Dave.

[JonnyCab®]

Er, that's not what I remember reading in Car And Driver. They said that
although the "locked" "4X4" position does put the coupling in a "locked"
mode, it still allows for slippage, and that an Escape stuck with
alternately-spinning wheels (such as left front and right rear) would NOT be
able to get unstuck, and I believe the end quote was "That makes the Escape
NOT a true four-buh-four [sic]".

My sister has an Escape---I'll ask her what the owner's manual says. I'm
pretty sure I recall that you CAN use the "locked" mode on dry pavement,
like any other AWD (not 4WD) truck.

[Bill Funk]

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:13:46 -0500, "JonnyCab®"

Post by JonnyCab®
Er, that's not what I remember reading in Car And Driver. They said that
although the "locked" "4X4" position does put the coupling in a "locked"
mode, it still allows for slippage, and that an Escape stuck with
alternately-spinning wheels (such as left front and right rear) would NOT be
able to get unstuck, and I believe the end quote was "That makes the Escape
NOT a true four-buh-four [sic]".

But any other 'true four-buh-four' without some sort of limited slip
differential will do exactly the same.

Post by JonnyCab®
My sister has an Escape---I'll ask her what the owner's manual says. I'm
pretty sure I recall that you CAN use the "locked" mode on dry pavement,
like any other AWD (not 4WD) truck.

[JonnyCab®]

Post by Bill Funk
But any other 'true four-buh-four' without some sort of limited slip
differential will do exactly the same.

OK...but again, my point was that in the Escape's "locked" mode, you can
drive it on dry pavement without driveline bind. In other words, you can go
through turns on dry pavement.

An Explorer with "4X4 on" is NOT designed to turn on dry pavement.

[Knack]

Post by JonnyCab®

Post by Bill Funk
But any other 'true four-buh-four' without some sort of limited slip
differential will do exactly the same.

OK...but again, my point was that in the Escape's "locked" mode, you can
drive it on dry pavement without driveline bind. In other words, you can go
through turns on dry pavement.
An Explorer with "4X4 on" is NOT designed to turn on dry pavement.

Last week I test drove an Escape immediately after test driving an Explorer
at the dealer's lot. There wasn't a suitable terrain near the dealer's
location for me to try to get the vehicles stuck in mud. So I resigned
myself to just doing 2 simple tests of the drivetrain for *both* vehicles:

1) Listen for how much noise the drivetrain (mostly the transfer case) makes
while in locked 4WD mode; compare noise for both vehicles. Normally, locked
4WD mode makes quite a bit of noise compared to 2WD mode for such 4x4
vehicles that have push-button 4WD.

2) Test to make sure the panel switches actually are turning on the 4x4
locked modes, and that the switches are able to get the vehicle out of the
locked modes. This has been a problem with my old '91 Explorer. Moreover, a
mechanical problem that has something to do with lubrication/rust can seize
the locking/unlocking in old Explorers, Blazers and other 3+ year-old
push-button 4x4 models so that (sadly) some owners actually revert to using
aftermarket hub locking kits.

The 2004 Explorer, with V-8 has a drivetrain that makes about the same
amount of noise in both 4WD-high and 4WD-low that of my '91 Explorer (V-6;
manual; 4x4) made when it was new. OTOH the locked 4WD mode of the 2004
Escape V-6 was so unbelievably quiet that (by ear) it was very difficult for
us to be able to say for sure until we got the vehicle above 40 mph.

A second test that I did on the 2004 Escape to prove the locked 4WD actually
was engaged was to deliberately make a creeping U-turn on dry pavement while
in locked 4WD mode. The vehicle had *very little* "rear axle hop" (Is that
what it's called?) due to the failure of the rear to slip freely. The rear
wheels hopped just slightly enough for me to be able to confidently say
"Yep, it's in locked 4WD mode." However, when I did the same test test in
the 2004 Explorer I got the big thumping of rear wheel hop that I expected.
So there's something obviously different about the Escape's locked 4WD
performance on dry pavement; it sure doesn't lock rigidly. That's nice on
dry pavement, but why would anyone normally be operating the vehicle that
way? That "ability" of the 2004 Escape in locked 4WD mode is a disadvantage
if you should get stuck in gravel or with a rear wheel down in a hard
surface hole.

Another questionable characteristic of the Escape; when in "auto" mode. When
I took a sharp 90 degree corner of a residential neighborhood road at 27
mph (faster that anyone would normally drive a SUV on such a corner) in
order to test the flatness of its cornering. In the turn I felt a slight
bumpy drift in the rear, with no squealing of tires. A little unnerving.
Wasn't used to it; didn't like it. Couldn't be sure whether the rear wheels
had hopped or whether something had instantaneously changed in the
drivetrain. What's your take on this, guys?

To summarize, I like the extremely low drivetrain noise of the Escape's
locked 4WD mode. But that locked 4WD mode did not prove to be very rigid
during a creeping U-turn on dry pavement, so what can be expected of it if
you should get stuck on a rigid surface? Also I felt that the 'auto' mode
interfered with the handling of a brisk but unchallenging paved turn, so
what will happen during an emergency swerve?

[boo radley]

the manual for my Mazda tribute / escape says do not drive it on in four wheel drive mod

[barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply]

yep, looking at the article right now in their "tech knowhow" right
after the escape article.They could not have given the Escape any
higher marks tho - they luv it!

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:13:46 -0500, "JonnyCab®"

Post by JonnyCab®
Er, that's not what I remember reading in Car And Driver. They said that
although the "locked" "4X4" position does put the coupling in a "locked"
mode, it still allows for slippage, and that an Escape stuck with
alternately-spinning wheels (such as left front and right rear) would NOT be
able to get unstuck, and I believe the end quote was "That makes the Escape
NOT a true four-buh-four [sic]".
My sister has an Escape---I'll ask her what the owner's manual says. I'm
pretty sure I recall that you CAN use the "locked" mode on dry pavement,
like any other AWD (not 4WD) truck.

[JonnyCab®]

Post by barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply
yep, looking at the article right now in their "tech knowhow" right
after the escape article.They could not have given the Escape any
higher marks tho - they luv it!

Oh, I'm not disputing THAT. My sister's 2001 has something like 65,000
miles on it, and all they've done is change the oil, coolant, and tires,
AFAIK.

But it's NOT a 4WD. It's an AWD.

[Knack]

Post by JonnyCab®

Post by barrythedude - remove yer HAT and COAT to reply
yep, looking at the article right now in their "tech knowhow" right
after the escape article.They could not have given the Escape any
higher marks tho - they luv it!

Oh, I'm not disputing THAT. My sister's 2001 has something like 65,000
miles on it, and all they've done is change the oil, coolant, and tires,
AFAIK.
But it's NOT a 4WD. It's an AWD.

After reading that findarticle.com article, I'm beginning to think that
*none* of the previous year models of Escape actually had AWD, despite some
of the old professional reviews on the web that are still published for
previous year models. The 'auto' mode of the 4WD-equipped models imparts
peculiar cornering on dry pavement that has a functional similarity with
AWD.

This subject is way too technical for the average car salesman. Are you guys
beginning to see why the salesman couldn't tell me for sure?

[JonnyCab®]

Post by Knack
This subject is way too technical for the average car salesman. Are you guys
beginning to see why the salesman couldn't tell me for sure?

Yes! LOL

[Dave]

Post by Jim Warman
Yes....

Well considering it is one of the most capable 4WD's built for the
passenger markrt I'd say you'd need to reconsider your definition of
4WD.

[JonnyCab®]

Post by Dave
Well considering it is one of the most capable 4WD's built for the
passenger markrt I'd say you'd need to reconsider your definition of
4WD.

I'll stop now. I ALREADY think the Escape is one of the best car-based SUVs
out there.

I guess people just don't read and comprehend posts before replying.

[Jim Warman]

Interested in seeing your definition of "capable"...... also interested in
understanding how you came to know this.

Might be a good little scooter for dancing around sand dunes and forest
lanes but I live in the oil patch in northern Alberta.... heavy
loads...... -50°C..... slop past your axles..... break through the muskeg
and look for a convenient Cat. I am talking what is pretty close to the most
inhospitable climate you can imagine. I've seen a couple of consultants try
the Range Rover routine...... after that, they get smart...

Jim Warman

Post by Dave

Post by Jim Warman
Yes....

Well considering it is one of the most capable 4WD's built for the
passenger markrt I'd say you'd need to reconsider your definition of
4WD.

[C. E. White]

Post by Dave

Post by JonnyCab®
In "Auto" mode, the front wheels are always engaged, and the clutch diverts
some power to the rear wheels when FRONT slippage is detected.

Absolutley correct...

Post by JonnyCab®
In "4X4" mode, which isn't a true 4x4 because of the viscous (rather than
direct, locked mechanical) coupling, the clutch is engaged full-time, but
still allows some slippage. This is an advantage on dry roads, because
there's no drivetrain bind, and you can makes turns without shutting it off.
But it also means that its four-wheel-drive traction is lower than that of a
true mechanical 4x4 connection.

Not quite.
Agreed there is a viscous coupling, when in 'lock' mode a
electromechanical lock "locks" the front and rear drive shafts. It
doesn't allow any slippage, and can cause binding and 'winding up' of
the driveshafts when on a smooth surface.

Go read
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3012/6_180/63565216/p4/article.jhtml?term=

I used to think like you, but after reading the above article I believe that in
4x4 mode, extra force is exerted, but it is still not a solid lock.

From the article -

"A second mode is also available. For off-road or "get-unstuck" use, the driver
may press a "4x4 On" button on the dash of the Tribute, or turn a switch on the
Escape. Each sends an electrical current to an electromagnetic coil adjacent to
the RBC. This engages a small multi-plate pilot clutch in the RBC unit, which in
turn applies the main clutch though a ball-ramp thrust-amplification device. The
drive torque available in this mode is nearly seven times greater than the maximum
torque available in the on-demand mode."



Ed

[Dave]

Post by C. E. White
Go read
http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3012/6_180/63565216/p4/article.jhtml?term=
I used to think like you, but after reading the above article I believe that in
4x4 mode, extra force is exerted, but it is still not a solid lock.
SNIP

Well, with all due respect to Automotive Journalism and their
descriptions of systems and the vehicles themselves, they know Jack!

I can quote a prominant 'Journalist' by the Name of Paul Glover in one
of our National Newspapers writing that the "Escape is a rebadged
Mazda Tribute".
I attempted to point out that he was wrong and the only external
things they share are the roof, front passenger and driver glass and
windscreen and rear mirrors.. I did concede that underneath they are
the same. I received a reply advising that I was wrong and that I
should look at one..... I own one and I should know the difference! So
this little experience has taught me that when a motoring journalist
writes something, it's generally not quite correct!

As an aside I have to agree that the ESCAPE/TRIBUTE cousins have to be
one of the best passenger SUV's out there! Now if only Ford could
persuade Land Rover to ditch the current Freelander and base the next
one on the Escape/Tribute - they'd actually have a nice car!

Cheers
Dave.

[Knack]

Post by Dave

Post by C. E. White
Go read

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3012/6_180/63565216/p4/article.jhtml?ter
m=

Post by Dave

Post by C. E. White
I used to think like you, but after reading the above article I believe that in
4x4 mode, extra force is exerted, but it is still not a solid lock.
SNIP

Well, with all due respect to Automotive Journalism and their
descriptions of systems and the vehicles themselves, they know Jack!
I can quote a prominant 'Journalist' by the Name of Paul Glover in one
of our National Newspapers writing that the "Escape is a rebadged
Mazda Tribute".
I attempted to point out that he was wrong and the only external
things they share are the roof, front passenger and driver glass and
windscreen and rear mirrors.. I did concede that underneath they are
the same. I received a reply advising that I was wrong and that I
should look at one..... I own one and I should know the difference! So
this little experience has taught me that when a motoring journalist
writes something, it's generally not quite correct!
As an aside I have to agree that the ESCAPE/TRIBUTE cousins have to be
one of the best passenger SUV's out there! Now if only Ford could
persuade Land Rover to ditch the current Freelander and base the next
one on the Escape/Tribute - they'd actually have a nice car!

I question not only the journalists' descriptions of technical features, but
the credibility of their driving tests too. Please see the handling
description for the 2002 Escape at
http://www.newcarreviews.com/2002_ford_escape.html The guy states that the
Escape has *understeer* handling characteristics. Oh, really ;-) If the
Escape handles with understeer, then it would not merely handle like a sedan
(slides controllably before it rolls over) but like a good sports car.
AFAIK, generally only sports cars posess understeer handling
characteristics. Those sports car models that are certain to have it are
mid/rear engine with rear wheel drive. This is not to say that other
vehicles such as Corvettes and Mercedes don't have it, but they are less
common. And quite to the contrary of what was stated, front wheel drive
*sedans* having understeer characteristics are a very uncommon exception to
the rule.

[Reece Talley]

Understeer is common to almost all front wheel drive autos while over steer
is common to rear wheel drive autos. With Front wheel drive, over steer can
be simulated by pulling up sharply on the hand brake as one enters a turn.
Rally drivers have been doing this for years.
--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
NAR #69594
NRA #133073736

Post by JonnyCab®

Post by Dave

Post by C. E. White
Go read

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3012/6_180/63565216/p4/article.jhtml?ter

Post by JonnyCab®
m=

Post by Dave

Post by C. E. White
I used to think like you, but after reading the above article I

believe

Post by JonnyCab®
that in

Post by Dave

Post by C. E. White
4x4 mode, extra force is exerted, but it is still not a solid lock.
SNIP

Well, with all due respect to Automotive Journalism and their
descriptions of systems and the vehicles themselves, they know Jack!
I can quote a prominant 'Journalist' by the Name of Paul Glover in one
of our National Newspapers writing that the "Escape is a rebadged
Mazda Tribute".
I attempted to point out that he was wrong and the only external
things they share are the roof, front passenger and driver glass and
windscreen and rear mirrors.. I did concede that underneath they are
the same. I received a reply advising that I was wrong and that I
should look at one..... I own one and I should know the difference! So
this little experience has taught me that when a motoring journalist
writes something, it's generally not quite correct!
As an aside I have to agree that the ESCAPE/TRIBUTE cousins have to be
one of the best passenger SUV's out there! Now if only Ford could
persuade Land Rover to ditch the current Freelander and base the next
one on the Escape/Tribute - they'd actually have a nice car!

I question not only the journalists' descriptions of technical features, but
the credibility of their driving tests too. Please see the handling
description for the 2002 Escape at
http://www.newcarreviews.com/2002_ford_escape.html The guy states that the
Escape has *understeer* handling characteristics. Oh, really ;-) If the
Escape handles with understeer, then it would not merely handle like a sedan
(slides controllably before it rolls over) but like a good sports car.
AFAIK, generally only sports cars posess understeer handling
characteristics. Those sports car models that are certain to have it are
mid/rear engine with rear wheel drive. This is not to say that other
vehicles such as Corvettes and Mercedes don't have it, but they are less
common. And quite to the contrary of what was stated, front wheel drive
*sedans* having understeer characteristics are a very uncommon exception to
the rule.

[Knack]

Post by Reece Talley
Understeer is common to almost all front wheel drive autos while over steer
is common to rear wheel drive autos. With Front wheel drive, over steer can
be simulated by pulling up sharply on the hand brake as one enters a turn.
Rally drivers have been doing this for years.

But I remember the old MiniCoopers were used for road racing. They had
notorious oversteer characteristics. Do they still? Weren't they the first
front wheel drive cars?

[Reece Talley]

They were far from the first but they were mass produced like none before
had been. I drove a couple of Coopers back in 70 and 71 and I don't remember
them over steering without handbrake input. They had torque steer just as
is common to all FWD cars and IIRC, they were almost impossible to spin out
on dry pavement.
--
R. J. Talley
Teacher/James Madison Fellow
NAR #69594
NRA #133073736

Post by Knack

Post by Reece Talley
Understeer is common to almost all front wheel drive autos while over

steer

Post by Reece Talley
is common to rear wheel drive autos. With Front wheel drive, over steer

can

Post by Reece Talley
be simulated by pulling up sharply on the hand brake as one enters a turn.
Rally drivers have been doing this for years.

But I remember the old MiniCoopers were used for road racing. They had
notorious oversteer characteristics. Do they still? Weren't they the first
front wheel drive cars?

[Knack]

Post by C. E. White

Post by Dave

Post by JonnyCab®
In "Auto" mode, the front wheels are always engaged, and the clutch diverts
some power to the rear wheels when FRONT slippage is detected.

Absolutley correct...

Post by JonnyCab®
In "4X4" mode, which isn't a true 4x4 because of the viscous (rather than
direct, locked mechanical) coupling, the clutch is engaged full-time, but
still allows some slippage. This is an advantage on dry roads, because
there's no drivetrain bind, and you can makes turns without shutting it off.
But it also means that its four-wheel-drive traction is lower than that of a
true mechanical 4x4 connection.

Not quite.
Agreed there is a viscous coupling, when in 'lock' mode a
electromechanical lock "locks" the front and rear drive shafts. It
doesn't allow any slippage, and can cause binding and 'winding up' of
the driveshafts when on a smooth surface.

Go read

http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m3012/6_180/63565216/p4/article.jhtml?ter
m=

Post by C. E. White
I used to think like you, but after reading the above article I believe that in
4x4 mode, extra force is exerted, but it is still not a solid lock.
From the article -
"A second mode is also available. For off-road or "get-unstuck" use, the driver
may press a "4x4 On" button on the dash of the Tribute, or turn a switch on the
Escape. Each sends an electrical current to an electromagnetic coil adjacent to
the RBC. This engages a small multi-plate pilot clutch in the RBC unit, which in
turn applies the main clutch though a ball-ramp thrust-amplification device. The
drive torque available in this mode is nearly seven times greater than the maximum
torque available in the on-demand mode."

Ed, it's definitely *not* a solid lock; based on the dry pavement creeping
U-turn that I described in my earlier reply in this thread to JohhnnyCab.
And that's not a good thing.

[boo radley]

a real four-wheel drive will have a high and low range which the overwhelming majority of front wheel drive based SUVs will not have. from the manual do not drive on drive or even wet pavement in four wheel drive mod